The voting system is completely flawed without collecting no votes anyway.

When was the last time you heard of a poll with one answer? That's like saying..

Do you like Cookies?
Yes.

OH MY GOD 100% of people like cookies!

It's probably more of a case of: 'Would you pay for this?' So they can see how much they can net, should they follow through.

невидимый wrote:It's probably more of a case of: 'Would you pay for this?' So they can see how much they can net, should they follow through.

Yeah, that's a stupid way to look at it though.

After all, they're boasting they're "doing right by the community", that's just obviously not true. If they were doing right by the community they'd have a simple yes/no vote where, let's say anyone that's previously been a member can vote; after all they've admitted EOC was a mistake, and has lost them a lot of subscribers.

Either way, I personally don't care anymore; MAYBE i'd play a little if they reintroduced 2007 servers at say.. £3 a month membership; no way am I paying for RS membership + additional membership for 2007 servers. Ironic really, I can't tell Jagex that at all. Pro feedback method Jagex, Pro indeed.

Owen wrote:The voting system is completely flawed without collecting no votes anyway.

When was the last time you heard of a poll with one answer? That's like saying..

Do you like Cookies?
Yes.

OH MY GOD 100% of people like cookies!

I have to say I entirely disagree.

This is the exact right time to use this method of gathering data, it's not a case of yes or no, it's a case of determining interest. If this server were to come out, it would not change the current game, therefore there is no point in saying no to it. It did -not- work for the wilderness return situation, and it makes sense having members vote (although a 5+ year old account vote would make more sense) considering what happened with the wilderness referendum.

It's just like steam green-light, they ask the community if they would play the game, there is no option to say you wouldn't buy it, only if you would. It makes sense because it has no effect on the people who wouldn't buy the game thus there is no need to say you wouldn't.

I can understand people being upset about the payment thing, but really, Jagex are actually doing something the community asked for (even if they want to make some money out of it), but I guess people will continue to complain no matter what happens.

Penguin414 wrote:

I can understand people being upset about the payment thing, but really, Jagex are actually doing something the community asked for (even if they want to make some money out of it), but I guess people will continue to complain no matter what happens.

I hate that argument. <_< It's like saying; you've complained once so you can't complain again.

If you believe that a 2007 server would have no impact on the current game.. Then I doubt I can really.. argue against that. Although I completely disagree that a 2007 server will not impact the current game.

Owen wrote:
If you believe that a 2007 server would have no impact on the current game.. Then I doubt I can really.. argue against that. Although I completely disagree that a 2007 server will not impact the current game.

I don't know what that means, how will 2007 impact the game in which way? Socially?

Princess wrote:

Owen wrote:
If you believe that a 2007 server would have no impact on the current game.. Then I doubt I can really.. argue against that. Although I completely disagree that a 2007 server will not impact the current game.

I don't know what that means, how will 2007 impact the game in which way? Socially?

Okay, so look back at the beta; what was the major problem with the beta?

I'd argue that it was.. Nobody wanted to play unless their associated community was playing with them; (Ignoring the fact that there was no actual rewards for doing the beta >_>)

I have a feeling you wanted me to say yes, and were going to mention the cross-server chat that they mentioned; But, that's just not the same as playing the same game.

I gtg, so.. yeah I can't finish my point .-.

Owen wrote:I hate that argument. <_< It's like saying; you've complained once so you can't complain again.

That's not at all what it's saying, it's saying people like to complain and no matter what happens people will complain. If 99% of people want something, there is always the 1% remain that will complain. And there's the recurring point that you seem to be against everything Jagex says or does even though you said you have basically nothing to do with the game any more.

Owen wrote:If you believe that a 2007 server would have no impact on the current game.. Then I doubt I can really.. argue against that. Although I completely disagree that a 2007 server will not impact the current game.

What's going to happen? The people who will play it are the people who are tired of current RS, IE those that don't play any more of those that hardly play. It will be like classic to the others, they might play it for a little while for the novelty, but they will tire of it and go back to standard RS.
(you posted just before I posted this, but the point still stands)

As for the fact that you just ignored my actual point (as always seems to happen when I post a statement -anywhere- [especially on the rsof]), I'll just leave that to the fact that it's the spam thread.

Edit: Also, the problem with the beta wasn't so much that other's weren't playing, as it was the fact that it didn't give you any benefit at all. People don't play RS for fun so much any more as they do to get 99s/maxed/comp cape, why play a beta that gives you no xp when you could be afking some 99?

no actual rewards for doing the beta?

do you even know what a beta is?

Owen wrote:

Princess wrote:

Owen wrote:
If you believe that a 2007 server would have no impact on the current game.. Then I doubt I can really.. argue against that. Although I completely disagree that a 2007 server will not impact the current game.

I don't know what that means, how will 2007 impact the game in which way? Socially?

Okay, so look back at the beta; what was the major problem with the beta?

I'd argue that it was.. Nobody wanted to play unless their associated community was playing with them; (Ignoring the fact that there was no actual rewards for doing the beta >_>)

Assuming you mean the EoC beta...
The fact that there were no actual rewards for doing the beta was, in my opinion, the only reason that nobody wanted to play it. The beta was, to my knowledge, supposed to be a way for Jagex to get feedback from players to work out the kinks of the EoC before it went to the live game, and nothing more. i.e. it was supposed to be a beta. How that worked out for them is another story.

But ideally (if Jagex achieves what I assume they want to achieve with this) then people's associated community will be playing with them. That is, people who don't like the way RS has gone and quit as a result can go back to playing the game they used to enjoy with the people they used to enjoy playing it with. People who continue to play the current game can continue to play it whilst chatting to their old-school counterparts ingame, assuming that's implemented.

Sure, it'll inevitably 'cause a divide' between the two different versions of the game, but I'd say it's better both for the RS community/communities as well as for Jagex to have both groups actually playing their game.

edit: 24 is a good show.

Okay, let me explain now I have slightly more time.

I never ignored your point 414, I said creating a 2007 server would impact the current game, no matter what they do. You can't safe-gaurd the current game by allocating the same resources, that's not how it works. The game is too heavily community driven for that to happen.

The fact that Runescape has been recruiting fewer players in recent years is a massive point not to forget; Everyone always talks about "noob" players in rs, if I may be so bold as to say there are very few "noobs" in Runescape these days, xp was handed out too easily and cheaply blah blah blah(could continue but that's not the point of this discussion).

I really don't see what Jagex is trying to achieve by doing this, yes the community asked for it, but by making a 2007 server in my opinion will pretty much kill the current Runescape. People generally aren't going to play both, as they're too time consuming; The general community far prefers Runescape 2007 over current Runescape. (not going to bash Jagex for that, although I could quite easily)

With regards to the voting system, the people they are targeting are players from 2007 for "nostalgic" reasons- no? that's what they said anyway, so if that is to be believed.. Why don't they let 2007-accounts vote at the bare minimum? That's how they will actually get some useful data. What's the point in asking loyal members of Runescape? isn't the result obvious already? Not only that, they're basically screwing the people that don't want this, what are they supposed to do? let's say personX has really enjoyed the EoC, and now can't vote/voice their opinion(lolrsof)? Nice way to treat a loyal customer.

Let's quickly talk about.. Why they are only letting members vote.. Sure, I don't want to speculate; but there is NO reason to set/reveal those targets to the public without the intention of making people get members to vote. If they weren't trying to get people to think "let's buy a month and vote omfg I want this back!" they wouldn't have put the targets there. That business model is so flawed.

I think it was obvious from the start this is some terrible marketing plan but if they're promising us this and there's a chance it'll work I did say I will buy a month and vote.

Princess wrote:No.
Though it is funny, August 2007 is 8 days before clan chats were even made.

The backup is from August 10, so clan chats should exist.

Friends will be the same and you can talk to friends across all Jagex account games; RS, RSC, Funorb.
I wonder if clan chat will be linked.

Mod Mmg wrote:Why members only? Members don’t represent all interested potential players...

Our current members are the ones we know for sure are committed to RuneScape and have the biggest stake in our future. If a member votes, we have a high confidence they’ll follow through, as they actively play and pay for RuneScape already. Another reason is that a members' poll run using our own systems is something we can do securely, completely trusting the validity of the result.

Makes sense.


It wont make much more of an impact than RSC.

Mod Mike wrote:
We will continue to develop and support the current version of RuneScape as we head towards the release of RuneScape 3 and beyond!

wut

Hans wrote:
It wont make much more of an impact than RSC.

Mod Mike wrote:
We will continue to develop and support the current version of RuneScape as we head towards the release of RuneScape 3 and beyond!

wut

I disagree, RS2 was released when the game was small.

To compare RS2007/Current RS to the RSC/RS2 is impossible to do in my opinion, different concept entirely.

Judging by your wut i'm guessing you don't know what RS3 is? ;o it's basically HTML5.

so, i saw this on facebook and decided to print and hand some out today to friends. I got a bunch of great reactions.

Spoiler:

Owen wrote:I disagree, RS2 was released when the game was small.

To compare RS2007/Current RS to the RSC/RS2 is impossible to do in my opinion, different concept entirely.

Jagex created an area where veterans and those who preferred RSC over RS2 could play in the game that they loved rather than having to deal with all the new updates that they did not want. Sure, it's taken awhile longer, and stats will be reset, but it's Jagex creating an area where veterans who preferred the game as it was in 2007 can play. So yes, it is essentially the same thing, just 5 and a half years late with the skill reset. It might just be a little better kept by Jagex rather that just leaving it to whatever happens happens like they did with RSC.

It's really not going to be as bad as you say it is. The majority of current RS players will dabble in it for a little bit, see what it was like, maybe have a few nostalgic memories, then remember that they have 10 99s and a grand exchange waiting for them with 10x xp rates and run back to current rs. As I have said already, the people who will be playing this are those who have a) already quit, or b) hardly play at all.

And yes, that MMG quote that PSP brought up is actually logical, yes, they could allow veterans to vote, but heck, even I have about 5 f2p accounts from before 2007, so really that would skew
results almost as much as the wilderness referendum.

Penguin414 wrote:

Owen wrote:I disagree, RS2 was released when the game was small.

To compare RS2007/Current RS to the RSC/RS2 is impossible to do in my opinion, different concept entirely.

Jagex created an area where veterans and those who preferred RSC over RS2 could play in the game that they loved rather than having to deal with all the new updates that they did not want. Sure, it's taken awhile longer, and stats will be reset, but it's Jagex creating an area where veterans who preferred the game as it was in 2007 can play. So yes, it is essentially the same thing, just 5 and a half years late with the skill reset. It might just be a little better kept by Jagex rather that just leaving it to whatever happens happens like they did with RSC.

It's really not going to be as bad as you say it is. The majority of current RS players will dabble in it for a little bit, see what it was like, maybe have a few nostalgic memories, then remember that they have 10 99s and a grand exchange waiting for them with 10x xp rates and run back to current rs. As I have said already, the people who will be playing this are those who have a) already quit, or b) hardly play at all.

And yes, that MMG quote that PSP brought up is actually logical, yes, they could allow veterans to vote, but heck, even I have about 5 f2p accounts from before 2007, so really that would skew
results almost as much as the wilderness referendum.

I understand your point, I just don't agree. I feel the >Majority< of players are fed up with how Jagex are running the current version of RS. If you ask someone how they managed to find RS the majority of people will say "A friend recruited me.", feel free to correct me on that; but as far as i'm aware Jagex never really advertised Runescape in any substantial manner. You might be thinking, why am I bringing this up? Well, there's a valid reason; if someone goes onto RS2007 plays, recruits their friends- i'm fairly confident that RS2007 would have a greater pulling power over quit/barely playing players; So, what happens if RS2007 starts getting a greater average #of players online? What is Jagex's ranking system going to mean then? Nothing. They're going to develop/redevelop where the money is. At this point it's all speculation but I feel there is a greater demand for RS2007 than current RS.

That is a major difference between RSC and RS2, RS2 really offered more in terms of content/graphics; RS2007 and Current RS is the opposite, it's going back in time for nostalgia/that gameplay experience. If you believe that players will go and play RS2007, then go back to current RS, that's a fatal difference in opinion we have. In my opinion it's tying a noose around the neck of Runescape, hoping it's feet will hit the floor before the noose tightens.

Votes can easily be analised, they're not just collecting the "vote" they're collecting what account you are voting with, how long you've been a member, your ip address, whatever else you can think of. You're telling me you couldn't exclude votes from non-member accounts during analysis? They're collecting partial data though.

I think my main annoyance is how it's portrayed as this massive "thing for the community!", when clearly it just isn't. They said 2006-07 servers would be impossible, but now there's been a petition, and people are willing to pay for such things; Suddenly it's possible?

I don't know how much I rambled in that, hopefully I got my point across though.

(it's late and I want to sleep. >_>)

Owen wrote:I understand your point, I just don't agree. I feel the >Majority< of players are fed up with how Jagex are running the current version of RS. If you ask someone how they managed to find RS the majority of people will say "A friend recruited me.", feel free to correct me on that; but as far as i'm aware Jagex never really advertised Runescape in any substantial manner. You might be thinking, why am I bringing this up? Well, there's a valid reason; if someone goes onto RS2007 plays, recruits their friends- i'm fairly confident that RS2007 would have a greater pulling power over quit/barely playing players; So, what happens if RS2007 starts getting a greater average #of players online? What is Jagex's ranking system going to mean then? Nothing. They're going to develop/redevelop where the money is. At this point it's all speculation but I feel there is a greater demand for RS2007 than current RS.

So then you have two options, the minority want a 2007 server and a minority will play on it, thus the bigger community is with current RS so it won't have the effect you are mentioning. OR the majority want a 2007 server and will play on that, thus if there was actually a vote for it, it would be in favour of the 2007 server anyway.

Owen wrote:That is a major difference between RSC and RS2, RS2 really offered more in terms of content/graphics; RS2007 and Current RS is the opposite, it's going back in time for nostalgia/that gameplay experience. If you believe that players will go and play RS2007, then go back to current RS, that's a fatal difference in opinion we have. In my opinion it's tying a noose around the neck of Runescape, hoping it's feet will hit the floor before the noose tightens.

Current RS offers a -lot- more content than 2007, with a -huge- graphics improvement. More skills, dozens more quests, new areas, new bosses, the lot. So it's hardly the opposite. (2007 doesn't have more content or better graphics in any way)

And yes, that's the point; nostalgia. People want a bit of nostalgia now and then. A few months ago I got out my N64 and played Mario kart, Ditty Kong racing and pod racer all day, that being the point, I played it all day. The next day I packed it up and it's now sitting in a box on top of my cupboard for the next year until I decide I want to play it again for a day for the nostalgia. People won't continue to play something for nostalgia because that's just not what nostalgia is all about.

Owen wrote:Votes can easily be analised, they're not just collecting the "vote" they're collecting what account you are voting with, how long you've been a member, your ip address, whatever else you can think of. You're telling me you couldn't exclude votes from non-member accounts during analysis? They're collecting partial data though.

So you're saying let everyone vote, then ignore the ones you didn't want in the first place? Make people think that they are making a difference and having their say when really their vote is just being excluded from the final counts? How is that better than being straight up about who can vote in the first place?

Owen wrote:I think my main annoyance is how it's portrayed as this massive "thing for the community!", when clearly it just isn't. They said 2006-07 servers would be impossible, but now there's been a petition, and people are willing to pay for such things; Suddenly it's possible?

If the community hadn't of said anything, there would never have been a chance at an 07 server. However, they community -did- say something, and now Jagex have looked into it and decided it can happen, sure, it may also be for extra money, but every thing Jagex does is for money, it's not a few guys in a basement any more.

EDIT: TALE OF THE POWER OF PERSISTENCE


When EoC first came out, Invis told me he wanted a master wand.

Me, being poor, told him I would get him one, for 1 gp, and that very day, I put in an offer on the grand exchange for a master wand for 1 gp.

Today, my promise to him has been realised. I received a master wand for 1gp.







Just realised I posted in the completely wrong thread.

Back.

Tonight.

I may post my opinion on this.

Or I may not.

Not really sure where it's going anyway.

I don't even know.
I can't understand Owen.

Owen, if there are enough votes, the 2007 won't cost extra money, could even allow f2p.

The hype won't last long, however they said they could get the hiscores working for RS07, and because everyone starts equally it could keep quite a few players there to compete for the top spot. If RSC had hiscores there would be a lot more players on there as well. Still, it won't split the community.

We have to cook.

At this rate we'll have other companies peddling their recycled game builds from 6 years ago. Shit talk aside, I believe there do exist people who would love to relive the old days. Unfortunately, I've grown so weary of the game as a whole that starting another RS life would be no more than a novelty - it'll always be tarnished for me.

Lets just get amnesia. We'll finally play Runescape for the first time again.

I don't understand how I can explain my view further.

With regards to the vote, You aren't collecting useless information by allowing everyone to vote. You're collecting the most data possible (Since cost isn't an issue since it barely would change), then analysing that data to find Exactly what you want to know. It's not as you put it "collecting useless data" as, it's not really useless to find out how many people don't want a 2007 server from the current player base. Let me give an example.

Let's say 100,000 people vote for a 2007 server, what does that number mean? What can they do with that number? Gauge demand - i'd argue poorly, what does a vote equate to? Does a vote mean a gaurenteed subscriber on release? No. What you'd have to do then is estimate the % of players that would get at least a month of subscription - let's say 70-80%, That's the difference between 70,000-80,000 people; that's the difference between.. £245,000 (at 3.50) and £280,000 - Is that a substantial amount? I'd argue yes, since it's probably at least 2 developers for a year. That's based of a complete and utter guess. How is that good analysing practise?

Let's say they make a yes no question, 100,000 people vote yes, 20,000 people vote no, What can they gauge from that question? Well they can see of the 120,000 people that have voted - how many of them are playing the current game, how long they've been playing the current game, heck they could build an entire profile of a player that wants a 2007server and a player that doesn't. They could do a simple forum search on all the users that said no to find conclusive feedback on why they don't want it; If you believe that a 2007server won't affect the current game then there's no point in reading what I just said, I think a 2007server is going to have a massive affect on the current game though.

So basically what I'm getting from you here is that you're against how their getting people to vote and you don't think Jagex should do what the community has been asking for for the past few years because some people (even maybe a majority) may want to play on the 07 server?
A community that you are no longer a part of in a game that you no longer play?

This is literally an update the community has asked for, even if it did split the community, it would bring more members than it would lose (I honestly can't see -anyone- quitting because Jagex released an 07 version of the game).

There already exists 06/07 versions of the game that are not run by Jagex that have been quite sucessful, (with thousands of players online at once), but yet, nothing has happened to the current RS community. You're honestly making this out to be a much bigger problem then it is.